They Really Think Like this r/AreTheCisOk

[dreadlordmrson]

Watch on YouTube

I commented to a friend on Discord while watching this:

Watching a video of a guy reacting to and tearing down anti-trans memes
Gives me an idea for a comic but even if I could sit down and draw it I'd be afraid to post it because of Tumblr reading comprehension

But a couple trans people outside a club, being stopped by the doorman
"Sorry, we don't let in people who've self-harmed just to look a certain way."
Then the doorman waves a super muscled body-builder through.
"Right this way, sir."

Comments

Yes ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

"Mutilation' is pretty much inherently judgmental. Frex, Americans insist that circumcision is a safe and clean thing to do, and lose their shit if you call it mutilation. But then they talk about genital mutilation of African girls, when cultures with that practice typically consider it a matter of hygiene.

Really, all these arguments are not about what is done, but rather, about who owns the body. If you own your body, you can do whatever you damn please. If someone else owns it, you are stuck with their decisions. If other people are trying to make decisions about your body, they think they own you. This is a problem.

Re: Yes ...

[dreadlordmrson]

For sure.
People should have a right to self determination about their own bodies, especially when it effects no one else's life.
(An example of a situation where it could affect someone else's life: A single parent wanting a procedure that would impair their ability to physically care for their child. Such as seeking limb amputation.)

Even if I think something is gross and distasteful (see extreme bodybuilding, as in my joke), I still think these people should have a right to medical care, even when it's for complications they brought on themselves such as kidney issues from dehydration.

"This is a problem."
God, so much. There's so many people who freak out at the idea of people not having some higher over that owns their body. A parent, a spouse, a government, a god, multiple of the above.
I do believe in discussing extreme changes with a partner before making them but that's NOT giving them the power of decision over your own body. And that's far, far from saying any particular body mod should be forbidden by either custom or law.

Bodily self determination is 100% one of my core values.

ETA:
Maybe if I'm ever faced with one of these "gender care is mutilation" people myself, I should lean in to "okay all surgery is mutilation" and discuss my carpal tunnel mutilation with them. And my gallbladder mutilation. And-
:p

Re: Yes ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> People should have a right to self determination about their own bodies, especially when it effects no one else's life.<<

Exactly.

>> (An example of a situation where it could affect someone else's life: A single parent wanting a procedure that would impair their ability to physically care for their child. Such as seeking limb amputation.) <<

True. And there are people who don't identify with certain body parts, thus wish to remove them.

>>Even if I think something is gross and distasteful (see extreme bodybuilding, as in my joke), I still think these people should have a right to medical care, even when it's for complications they brought on themselves such as kidney issues from dehydration.<<

Well, lots of people's choices have health drawbacks. Makeup can cause skin issues. Dieting usually causes weight to ratchet up, and can lead to malnutrition. Their body, their choice.

>>God, so much. There's so many people who freak out at the idea of people not having some higher over that owns their body. A parent, a spouse, a government, a god, multiple of the above.<<

Yeah, they are dangerous.

>> I do believe in discussing extreme changes with a partner before making them but that's NOT giving them the power of decision over your own body. And that's far, far from saying any particular body mod should be forbidden by either custom or law.<<

That makes sense.

>>Maybe if I'm ever faced with one of these "gender care is mutilation" people myself, I should lean in to "okay all surgery is mutilation" and discuss my carpal tunnel mutilation with them. And my gallbladder mutilation.<<

Well, most of it does a lot of damage, except a few examples that are minimalist -- but among those is vasectomy, the whole point of which is to destroy a function that the person doesn't want. It's just that people feel the tradeoffs are usually worth it.

That's exactly why I don't bother trying to modify my body's apparent gender -- I don't feel it would be worthwhile, and it would be very risky. But the tradeoffs and priorities are always individual. A different body/mind might have a totally different equation.

Re: Yes ...

[dreadlordmrson]

>> But the tradeoffs and priorities are always individual.

It's soooo individual, yeah.
I've seen some pushy people in the other direction too? They're less harmful at least, just annoying. The ones who go "you want to X? Do it!"

Nah, I don't think it's worth the effort/money/side effects/etc.

"Don't let those discourage you from chasing your dreams!"

Look sometimes a dream is just an idle fancy and I can't be arsed.

>> Dieting usually

Oh man I gotta hold back on my anti-dieting rant. I'm sure you probably know the high notes anyway, given your statement on it here.

>> but among those is vasectomy,

HA! How didn't I think of vasectomy? You're right that's purposefully impairing a normal bodily function due to personal preference. And while some people still freak out about it, it's overall fairly widely accepted in cultures I'm familiar with.

I have a few bodily functions I'd like to surgically impair, myself. Right now one of them is being chemically impaired, but a more permanent solution would leave me feeling... safer. Relieved.
Having natural functions of your body feel like hazards you have to endure/avoid/navigate around is supremely frustration. And some people not only don't understand that, but refuse to engage with the feeling of other people enough to even be AWARE of that as a possibility.

But yeah. Everyone should be comfortable in their own skin and get to make their own decisions about how to do that.

Re: Yes ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

>>I've seen some pushy people in the other direction too? They're less harmful at least, just annoying. The ones who go "you want to X? Do it!"<<

The ones that irritate the crap out of me are the gender police who insist that, if your genderqueerness is not destroying your life, it's not real. They don't believe it's okay to be genderqueer without body modification. Seriously? Fuck that noise. I'm a shapeshifter. Even morphlocked, that gives me skills for coping with a body that is, in a lot of ways, really not to my preference.

>>Look sometimes a dream is just an idle fancy and I can't be arsed.<<

Exactly. That's especially true with some sexual fantasies. Some things are more fun, or only fun, in imagination rather than actually doing them. And that's okay.

>>Oh man I gotta hold back on my anti-dieting rant. I'm sure you probably know the high notes anyway, given your statement on it here.<<

I often talk about food on my blog because I love cooking and exploring new things. But I also understand biology. Dieting for weight loss has about a 5% chance of long-term success and a 95% chance of actively making matters worse. That's a problem when people in power try to force it on others. I mean hell, most Americans want to be skinny, so if any of the prevailing advice or methods work, that would be the case but instead most of them are fat. Therefore, obviously, that stuff does not work.

However, that doesn't mean there's nothing you can do toward a healthier lifestyle. Some foodways are naturally lower in calories, like vegetarian or vegan ones. Some have lots of health benefits, like Mediterranean. Interestingly, the African food pyramid is the only one I've seen with a base layer of dark leafy greens. These aren't weight-loss diets, but rather sustainable systems that are used by whole populations. I like exploring ethnic and climate-resilient food options.

>>HA! How didn't I think of vasectomy? You're right that's purposefully impairing a normal bodily function due to personal preference. And while some people still freak out about it, it's overall fairly widely accepted in cultures I'm familiar with.<<

It's a good monkeywrench to use on the body-snatchers. There are really concrete reasons why someone might not want to father children, like having a genetic disorder.

>>Right now one of them is being chemically impaired, but a more permanent solution would leave me feeling... safer. Relieved.<<

Exactly. One that occurs to me is coprolalia, which causes people to speak offensive words. This can be extremely dangerous, so some people might prefer to dispense with their voice to solve that problem.

>>And some people not only don't understand that, but refuse to engage with the feeling of other people enough to even be AWARE of that as a possibility.<<

A common problem with bigots in general.

>>Everyone should be comfortable in their own skin and get to make their own decisions about how to do that.<<

So mote it be.